22 responses to “Obesity and Development.”

1. 

   Scott Mercer

   August 10, 2006

   Fattening food is cheaper.

   End of story.

   And don’t argue this. Are you gong to tell me that corn, wheat, rice, and sugar are MORE expensive than fresh fruits, vegetables and lean meats? No. You’re not.

   Just go to any 99 Cent store, and what do you see? Endless packages of highly processed cookies, cakes, crackers, cereals, candy, ramen noodles. Sugar-filled sodas and ice cream.

   Any fresh produce, dairy products, or meat? Maybe a little bit of canned vegetables and canned meat.

   It’s just easier and cheaper (and more addicting) to eat foods loaded with sugar and corn syrup. And that makes you fat.

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2. 

   Wad

   August 10, 2006

   Carter wrote:
   Just because you think McD is the evil empire does not always make them so. They serve a purpose, they feed more people than anyone else in the world, and apparently many still feel they do a good enough job at it.
   Whether you choose to eat there is your choice, just like it has been Andrew’s. Don’t vilify everyone else for their choice.
   First, why are you getting defensive about my posts? I’m not denying McDonalds’ place in the economy, and showing their practices is not vilification of it or its diners.

   Second, if I am wrong, please clarify. Of course the patties come frozen. But do they arrive at the restaurants raw (pink) or cooked (brown)? Second, what items at McDonalds restaurants are made from scratch and what items (besides the salads) arrive ready or pre-formed requiring minimal preparation? Third, what’s in the secret sauce? :>

   As you point out with fries, they come pre-sliced. A lot of foods come this way, and the practice is not unique to McDonalds. Fast food chains, and now sit-down restaurants, desire consistency in all outlets, so many foods are shaped and even cooked at central distribution centers and trucked frozen to restaurants where cooks do the final touches and serve the food. Inconsistency comes from using different ingredients or cooks with varying experience. The chains don’t want a wonderful meal in L.A. while the same dish is mediocre in Phoenix. This is where central preparation comes in handy.

   Practices vary from business to business, and no two businesses do things the same.

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3. 

   carter

   August 9, 2006

   Wad – you are wrong, except for the fact that the salads come pre-packaged.
   The patties come frozen, and the staff in the restaurant does everything thereafter toward the delivery of the product to the consumer.
   The fries arrive pre-sliced, yet they arrive that way in 2 out 3 restaurants in America.
   Just because you think McD is the evil empire does not always make them so. They serve a purpose, they feed more people than anyone else in the world, and apparently many still feel they do a good enough job at it.
   Whether you choose to eat there is your choice, just like it has been Andrew’s. Don’t vilify everyone else for their choice.

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4. 

   Wad

   August 9, 2006

   America, generally, is obese mainly because of an abundance of processed food and sedentary lifestyles.

   The biggest (no pun intended) factor is genetics, and how you start off determines how you’ll grow.

   Urban design will not change much, since routine walking won’t burn off enough calories of the American diet.

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5. 

   Andrew

   August 9, 2006

   Does sprawl contribute to obesity? Yes. Is it possible to live in a sprawling, car based area and still be in shape? Yes. Are there urban neighborhoods where walking and public transportation are the rule, but people are still fat? Yes.

   Are there wealthy people who are fat?

   Common sense does suggest that walking helps keep the weight off. But it must be designed into an individual lifestyle, not an architectural urban plan.

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6. 

   Intellectual Pariah

   August 9, 2006

   “Empirical observations of people I’ve met: a very fat man who lived next to a hiking trail in Pacific Palisades; a 150 pound, ten year old boy who lives in north side Chicago neighborhood with great public transportation and many parks and playgrounds; a very fit 54 year old neighbor who lives near the 405 freeway, but dances to stay in shape.”

   No offence, but this isn’t the most stunningly rigorous example of statistics-based argumentation that I’ve seen. I was under the impression that the sprawl-makes-you-fat people had some figures to back up their thesis. Is that untrue?

   No doubt any effect would be smaller than the well-established linkage between obesity and income. But controlling for income, isn’t at least plausible that a poor (or rich) person in a walkable neighbourhood is, on average, a little thinner than his sprawl-dwelling counterpart. Common sense suggests that working a bit of walking into your everyday life will help you keep the pounds off, other things being equally. And while that’s possible in any environment, it’s certainly easier in a walkable neighbourhood.

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7. 

   Wad

   August 7, 2006

   Carter, McDonalds pioneered food standardization, which has been refined enough that sit-down chains are now doing it.

   McDonalds is strict about consistency of its food, but to what degree are the site workers involved in preparing the food? Do the hamburger patties arrive at the restaurant pink or brown, for instance? Plus, fast food restaurants have cooking equipment that has timers to cook ingredients precisely. Much of the work, though, was done before the stock arrived at the restaurant.

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8. 

   Pete

   August 3, 2006

   I am destroyed utterly.

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9. 

   Jody

   August 3, 2006

   Andrew: new immigrants from Asia eating fish? I’m SHOCKED! 🙂

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10. 

    Andrew

    August 3, 2006

    Pete:

    Your utterances are a concatenation of ephemeral ideas, linked by a philosophical structure which is both didactic and melodic and perhaps influenced by Joseph Smith.

    Andrew

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11. 

    Andrew

    August 3, 2006

    And let’s think about the fast food argument for a minute. If you choose to patronize McDonalds everyday, you are making a bad choice.

    I live halfway between the Ranch 99 market which has lots of fresh produce and an enormous fish market, and McDonalds. I have never gone to McDonalds.

    The people who shop at Ranch 99, look to be middle to lower class folks. The baskets of the Asians are usually filled with green vegetables and fresh fish. They spend their money and calories wisely.

    It’s up to the individual to eat wisely and take some responsibility to for how they consume in the land of plenty.

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12. 

    carter

    August 3, 2006

    Wad – most fast food from the major national retailers is NOT pre-cooked. My first job in real estate was developing locations for the arches, and I can assure you that while I learned much about real estate and the development process, the most important thing I learned was that their food was served fresh, not brought in from central commissaries. The fries might be pre-sliced and ready to cook, yet they were not pre-cooked and then warmed, any more than any other product is. Salads may also be pre-packaged, yet they are not a cooked item.

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13. 

    Pete

    August 3, 2006

    I utilize the totality of feasible alternatives in pursuance of the teleological optimum of eschewing obfuscatory discourse.

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14. 

    Andrew

    August 3, 2006

    Pete-
    When you said, “Suburbia causes sprawl” my first thought was, “I don’t understand that, but he is so intellectual that it’s probably over my head.”

    In any case, hot weather causes high temperatures.

    Andrew

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15. 

    Wad

    August 3, 2006

    Megan wrote:
    This is a nationwide problem due to the fact that fast food is basically subsidized by the government, whereas organic/slow food is not.

    Even if you did not factor in government subsidies, fast food retailers operate on economies of scale with which organic argiculture cannot compete.

    Fast food chains like McDonalds have market power to drive down costs from their suppliers; also, since most fast food is pre-cooked at a central processing plant and only needs to be heated at the kitchen, this results in lower cost to the diners.

    And, as Andrew has noted, inner-city residents have poor nutrition habits, but much of this has to do with circumstances, not choice. In predominantly black neighborhoods, the food suppliers are mostly fast food chains or liquor stores. Before the riots, South Los Angeles only had about a dozen supermarkets despite a geographic area as large as the San Fernando Valley, which is oversaturated with supermarkets. Fast food chains and liquor stores were the businesses willing to serve the inner city, since the chains are mostly franchised and liquor stores are starter businesses for immigrants. Non-franchised chains avoid inner cities because of undesirable demographics.

    Another problem is that food for the needy (WIC, food banks, etc.) favors shelf-stable foods that are higher in fat, sodium and empty calories.

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16. 

    Pete

    August 3, 2006

    Oh god DAMN, I meant “suburbia causes obesity,” not “suburbia causes sprawl.” Sorry, man.

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17. 

    Jody

    August 3, 2006

    Some of the fattest people in the nation live in poor urban neighborhoods.

    If the poor neighborhoods are afflicted by crime, residents who feel more vulnerable might not want to spend time walking around those streets. And rough neighborhoods aren’t usually the most pedestrian-friendly either — hungry dogs in the front yard, crows up on the overhead power lines, garbage on the street, sidewalks in bad shape, no dedicated jogging or bike paths… not a very appealing place to power-walk.

    Think of Philadelphia, New Orleans and East LA. Some of the fittest live in sprawl like those anorexic, botoxed soccer moms who drive SUV’s around Calabasas and Orange County.

    They can also afford Pilates instructors and liposuction and getting Zone meals delivered to their door weekly.

    I agree that obesity is the result of a convergence of several different issues, but I don’t think the victims are 100% to blame here — they might have made some bad choices in the past, but now someone’s gotta empower them and convince them not just that “McDonald’s is evil,” but that eating nutritiously and exercising really does make you feel better. And show them how to do it: teach them how to turn bad calories into good, useful calories. Explain insoluble fiber, and what it does when you eat it. Show them what one serving of vegetables looks like, so the “9 servings of fruits and vegetables per day” doesn’t seem that ridiculously unmanageable.

    The ubiquity of the internet has made us all lazy-asses too, of course. How do we tear people away?

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18. 

    Andrew

    August 3, 2006

    Ubrayj02:

    Well my point isn’t to defend sprawl but rather to point out that obesity may be less a matter of living in a certain environment, than making choices.

    “Empirical”? One definition I found: “branch of philosophy which sees all knowledge as being based in experience — for example, the experience of the senses — as distinct from theory or logic.” In my experience, I have met people who I cited as “evidence” that the built environment doesn’t necessarily influence the body type of one who lives in it.

    You wrote: “Or are you talking about a car-centric transporation network AND suburban sprawl?” Yes, these demand less of us, and are odious, because of their aesthetic and environmental costs foremost. The effect on our physical well-being is less clear.

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19. 

    ubrayj02

    August 3, 2006

    Pete: I’m not sure what you mean by “suburbia is not sprawl”. By any definition I am familiar with, suburban or commercial development tied together with our national highway system is prety much the definition of sprawl. I mean, other than trying to sound obtuse, what is the point of saying that “suburbia is not sprawl” when there is abundant evidence that it is!

    Andrew: The “empirical” evidence you’ve cited in this post doesn’t seem very empirical to me.

    What are the demographics on obesity, and how do they match up with different transit options, land use patterns, and affordable access to fresh fruits and vegetables?

    Further, are you talking about, strictly speaking, suburban sprawl? Or are you talking about a car-centric transporation network AND suburban sprawl? You can live next to a nature preserve, but when you need to go to the post office, the doctor, the market, or to work and you are forced to drive – then isn’t your living situation inducing you to live a less physically demanding life?

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20. 

    megan

    August 2, 2006

    I think obesity has more to do with how expensive healthy food is versus fast food, both in money and in time. This is a nationwide problem due to the fact that fast food is basically subsidized by the government, whereas organic/slow food is not. A lot of it has to do with what Americans choose to consume, as they could make better choices and influence companies that way, but mostly it has to do with corporate greed and political ties that the average American can’t touch by ordinary means.

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21. 

    alex

    August 2, 2006

    Hey,
    been a reader for a while and decided to chime in after reading the post and comments on Lisbon. I agree that it’s too bad LA couldn’t have kept some of its original architectural ideas; narrow and high.

    Anyone know what’s the latest with the LA metro system and how far out in the valley will it eventually stretch?

    thanks, alex

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22. 

    Pete

    August 2, 2006

    To wit, I attended a seminar back in March given by Marlon Boarnet of UCI, in which he fairly convincingly demolished the notion that suburbia causes sprawl. In large part, this has to do with timing. The suburbanization of the nation was largely complete by 1980 or so, with inner-city population levels bottoming out at that time before beginning an immigration-driven rebound. However, obesity numbers started shooting way, way up beginning at that time, reaching epidemic proportions by the early 1990s. To blame are two things: first, the collapse in smoking among adults; and second, the replacement of cane sugar with high-fructose corn syrup, which made sodas much cheaper. Throw in video games and the sacrifice of gym class and recess time to the gods of standardized testing, and boom!

    Unlike their children, adult Americans have probably been more active since the late 1970s, given the immense proliferation of gyms and home fitness equipment. However, you don’t have to sweat off the calories that you don’t consume.

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